Scales & Ales Podcast

Tulsa’s 1st Neighborhood Brewery: Glenn Hall of Renaissance Brewing Co. | Tulsa Podcast

by | Apr 8, 2019 | Beer, Scales & Ales Podcast



  1. Renaissance Brewing Company – Tell us the story behind the name Renaissance Brewing Company and how you all got started.
  2. Tell us about your experience there studying the craft of craft beer.
  3. How did you originally get started in brewing? What got you into it? Maybe what did you first brewing setup look like? Was it in the corner of a room somewhere in the trunk of your car? Walk us through the begining.
  4. Why are you passionate about brewing and the brewing industry? You have created your own brand and business around this so what keeps you driving forward and not just brewing as a hobby?
  5. Where is the brewery located?
  6. How long have you guys been open?
  7. Where are you from?
  8. Glenn, can you describe brewery culture for us. Is it just a bunch of throwing stuff into the tanks and hoping for the best? Is it more scientific and calculated?
  9. Glenn, tell us about the beer. Which was the first one? And then, I don’t know if you’re allowed to play favorites, but I want to ask anyways do you have a favorite beer that you guys make?
  10. When deciding on names for beers and designs for beer cans, the artwork etc. Who is primarily in charge of that and setting that all up?
  11. What was it like first entering the industry?
  12. Now I read that you had to become an expert on city permitting and zoning, what’s that like?
  13. Now everyone needs to go drink some Renaissance Brewing Company beer at their brewery on Lewis, I would never say you’re an idiot if you don’t do that, I would never, but I will ask, what’s a beer that you’ve had that you guys enjoy drinking that you’d recommend to all the listeners out there? For any reason, wild flavors, gets you hammered, unique name, memorable experience, easy regular drinking….



Marshall Morris: Welcome back to the Snug at the taproom by Marshall’s Brewing. My name is Marshall Morris and next to me we have the incredibly humble, Mr. Eric Chupp.

Eric Chupp: What’s up, what’s up!

Marshall Morris: And across from me we have the most attractive attorney here in Tulsa, Mr. Adam Marshall.

Adam Marshall: Uh, uh. Don’t do me like that.

Marshall Morris: And on this episode we have a pretty bad ass guest with us here today from Renaissance Brewing Company. You have an awesome building. Is it a historic building? Is it a historic building on Lewis? It’s kind of an old style building?

Glenn Hall: That’s right. No, it’s a brand new building.

Marshall Morris: It’s a brand new building. Okay. We got Mr. Glenn Hall. Welcome to the SnugCast.

Glenn Hall: Good to be here.

Eric Chupp: Super excited to have you on.

Adam Marshall: Yeah I know, Glenn, I appreciate you coming on. You and I have known each other for a long time and I hope things are, you know, exciting in the new era of brewing. But before we get started, have a cheers, you know? Toast. Yeah, there we go. Have a good time. As always.

Eric Chupp: So, Adam, tell us how you guys know each other. Walk us through the history of it.

Adam Marshall: You know, being in this business for 10 years, my brother and I kind of started, we, we, we, most people we’ll talk to at least once you know who we’re going to start either in the state or in the, especially in the city. Now when there’s just a few people starting out in the state, we’re all kind of knew each other. Now there’s stuff going on in other parts of the state, and breweries popping up, I’ve never heard of. And probably you too.

Glenn Hall: Oh yeah, every day.

Adam Marshall: But Glenn and I got to know each other because, while he was building his brewery, he would come over quite a bit. We would run into each other at the industry conference, the craft brewers conference, which is a national industry conference. But, I think one thing that’s cool about, you know, tell me if I’m wrong, Glenn, but one thing that’s really unique.

Glenn Hall: You’re never wrong.

Adam Marshall: Oh, yes I am. But one thing that’s really unique about what you’ve done at Renaissance, and we’ll talk a little bit more about the story of that, but that it really was, for Tulsa at least, and I think for Oklahoma, the first true neighborhood brewery. You live in the neighborhood, renaissance neighborhood, you named your brewery after the renaissance neighborhood, and you did it all yourself—100 percent owned, you didn’t go out for investor money, you GC’ed (general contracted) the whole thing yourself—I’m not going to steal your thunder, but I’m pumping you up GC’ed, the whole thing yourself, took on the system, at a few times.

Glenn Hall: Tried to do my part.

Adam Marshall: Yeah, because zoning and all that were an issue. But, you know, I’ve heard pieces of the story, but I don’t know the whole story. And so, you know, the founding Renaissance, when did you say, hell yeah, this is what I’m doing. Because every brewer has that story, you know?

Glenn Hall: Oh yeah. Well, you know, Adam, I got to give credit to you guys and always do. I don’t know if you hear it, but I always say you guys plowed the way for all of us, you know, including, you know, I think you guys were the first production brewery and because you guys got the laws changed for us and then here comes coop and then it’s just kind of snowballed from there.

Adam Marshall: We plowed some ground.

Glenn Hall: That’s right. And so you guys get all the credit in the world. I don’t know that a lot of people really understand that. And you know, Adam’s right, you know, I was always over here, you know, picking their, you know, ears and trying to figure out, you know, those guys have done it and they know what to do. I still do. I have a list of questions for Eric as we speak. And, Adam too. Every time Adam calls me or I call him, you know, he’s the foremost expert on the alcohol laws in Oklahoma for our breweries.

Adam Marshall: Well, it’s at a point where we’re all learning from each other now because sometimes regulators will tell us different things.

Glenn Hall: I got it.

Adam Marshall: So we’re, we’re better off in numbers now and I’m glad to have the numbers too.

Glenn Hall: I got to admit, you know, I haven’t even really read through all of the new legislation because, I mean, in the new laws, because I wanted to wait until it was finalized, which it’s somewhat finalized now. I guess I need to start reading.

Adam Marshall: We’ve got a bunch of new bills that were filed that deal with alcohol and beer and so 2019 session for the state, we’re going to have to deal with some other stuff. We can talk about that another time.

Eric Chupp: It’s so interesting because we’ve talked about on past podcasts how all of the local breweries here, they’re all like what you were just saying. So, talk a little bit more about that. I mean, you know, as your guys’ relationship progressed. You know what I mean?

Glenn Hall: Oh yeah. Well, Eric knows. I was over here every Friday. I made it my thing to come in here in the afternoons and have a beer or two and just hang out. Well, we always tease because it’s like those days are numbered because once I get up and rolling, you know, I wasn’t going to be able to do it. You know, like Adam said, I mean I GC’ed my whole project. Well, I kind of go back to the past. So, I started brewing back in 94, so I’ve been around. I was a home brewer at the time, of course, but you know, I never really wanted to be a home brewer. I always got into it because I liked the engineering side of it—all the toys, the nice stainless—all that kind of stuff. I’m more of a mechanical guy, you know, like old cars, like doing stuff with my hands, so I got in it for that, not really, you know, a lot of numbers go all out and go to competitions and do all that stuff. That was never it for me. I just wanted to brew good beer and, you know, be able to play with all the neat, fun stuff.

Marshall Morris: So, so what has it become now at Renaissance? Is it just a bunch of guys throwing stuff into the tanks, trying to figure out a new formula for a new type of brewery? Are you very much…

Adam Marshall: A bunch of guys? It’s Glenn!

Glenn Hall: No, I do have some help, and I got a lot of good buddies that they show up when we need the project done and they get paid really well in free beer.

Marshall Morris: But, how do you arrive at the recipes for the different brews that you guys have done. Because it’s interesting to hear you talk about, from the engineering standpoint—the engineering concepts in the different aspects of that, because you get some guys who they just love beer and their passion for beer. And you’ve been doing it for a number of years, and so it’s almost a different perspective, or a different outlook on how you get it. Do you find that it’s more formulaic and more, more recipe driven, or are you just having a blast just trying to figure out and you’re like—that was kinda good. How did we make that again?

Glenn Hall: No, man. So, it happens a lot of different ways, I think. You can either say, “Hey, I want to brew this style.” Like a, we haven’t done a pale ale yet. We probably have, between me and our other brewers, we have about, I don’t know, 70–80 recipes developed and we scaled probably 20 of those up to our size, but. So we just decided, “Hey, let’s do a pale ale.” So we’re bringing in our staff and we’re pilot batching and a pale ale in the next week just to see how it goes and you know, whether that will make the light of day and it’ll probably, it’ll show up in our tap room of course. But it starts a lot of different ways, right. I mean like the four beers that we have out in the market: Renaissance Gold, Indian Wheat, Gamma Ray IPA, Black Gold—those are a fairly older recipes of mine. And, when I went to create that, you know, the portfolio, I wanted a variety of portfolio. So someone can find a beer that they like. I didn’t want to do, you know, all IPA’s or all whatever so, it’s kind of where that started. The Indian Wheat, it’s probably one of my older recipes because when I started brewing in 94, I think Hefeweizens where, you know, some of my favorite and…

Adam Marshall: The first home brew beer I ever made was a Hefeweizen.

Glenn Hall: Well, and I think that’s the only, so called, craft beer we could really even get our hands on a from Germany, or whatever. And so we were very limited. But yeah, so I developed that recipe. My wife and I…

Eric Chupp: What time frame, not to cut you off, but what timeframe? So you started in 94. When did you develop…? That same year?

Glenn Hall: That was, yeah, that was one of the first ones. So my wife and I started dating in 94 as well, so she was around for my very first…

Adam Marshall: Chuck, were you even born in 94?

Eric Chupp: I was 10 years old. How old were you in 94, Marshall.

Marshall Morris: I can’t remember.

Glenn Hall: Believe it or not, I was 21 so I didn’t start brewing until I was 21.

Eric Chupp: Well, you look like you are about 37. That can’t be… That math doesn’t check out.

Adam Marshall: Maybe a hard 37, I don’t know…

Eric Chupp: Whoa, whoa. Let’s keep it back on track here.

Glenn Hall: So anyway, I developed this Indian Wheat, and, my wife and I, we had a running date on Sunday night at Misal of India, in Norman, on campus corner. So we’d always go in there and we would always have Indian tea, and if you don’t know what Indian tea is, it’s black tea with cardamom and milk. So we love the flavor of the cardamom, and I said, well, wonder what happened with the Hefeweizen if I threw cardamom in it and there it was. And it’s been around since then. And, actually, funny thing, I wasn’t going to put the Indian Wheat in the lineup. And all my friends said…

Eric Chupp: They were like, “Hell no!”

Glenn Hall: So, I’m glad I did because it is one of our more approachable beers and people absolutely love it and it’s been done really well for us, so, you know…

Adam Marshall: I’ve never brewed with cardamom. Are you just throwing the pods in there? Like, I’ll make rice with cardamom, you know, but do you just throw pods or do you have some other…?

Glenn Hall: We do both. So, we boil it with whole pods—well, not the complete pod, but the loose seeds in the pod. Okay, because some of those seeds are tiny. I mean, yeah.

Glenn Hall: Right, right and it doesn’t take a lot. Cardamom is a pretty potent spice, so you’ve got to be really careful. So it was a trick getting it to scale up. And I actually made it a lot milder than the home-brew versions because a lot of my friends would call it the pepper beer because it gets real peppery.

Adam Marshall: Absolutely.

Eric Chupp: Like pepper, like black pepper?

Glenn Hall: So, cardamom, for beer, if you add it to the boil, it kinda imparts a Pepsi-Cola kind of flavor. It’s a cola-like flavor when you get up into that range. Then if you add it post fermentation, as a dry spice, we call it. Then it adds more of those floral-type characters and the pepper notes. So, home-brew, I extremely added the most you could possibly add and so it was on the extreme end. So, it’s funny because I had a couple of those bottles laying around from, probably god, they were probably 10 years old, and I kept them in the fridge for that long—I usually save beer to see how it ages. And, dude, thing was great! But it had those…

Eric Chupp: You could tell.

Glenn Hall: You know, notes—super heavy notes. Well, we chilled those out a little bit, just so, you know, it would be more balanced.

Adam Marshall: Yeah well wheat more traditionally has been kind of a crossover beer for a lot of folks who have come in from drinking fizzy, yellow beer most of their life and moving over. But, it’s an outstanding wheat.

Marshall Morris: So, you said that you have a Gamma Ray IPA.

Glenn Hall: That’s it.

Marshall Morris: And so, my question is, from the marketing standpoint, how do you arrive on these names? How do you arrive on the development and the artwork?

Glenn Hall: Ever beer has a different story. Every name.

Adam Marshall: Send him to school. It’s not because you’re a Hulk fan, right? You know, there’s some history on that name.

Glenn Hall: A what fan?

Adam Marshall: A Hulk fan!

Glenn Hall: Well, our graphic artist, Jason powers, J-Pow…

Eric Chupp: Shout out to J-Pow.

Glenn Hall: Well, he is a big Marvel Comic kinda guy. So, if you’ll notice, on that label in particular, it is up there with the Marvel Comic. We call him the ‘Drulk.’

Eric Chupp: The ‘Drulk?’

Glenn Hall: He’s the ‘Drulk.’ And so the name, I mean if you want to know from…

Marshall Morris: I love IPA’s. I drink a ton of IPA’s and so this is the one that I’ve tried and I’ve really enjoyed quite honestly. And, so I love hearing the story behind all the beers and how they came to be.

Glenn Hall: Well, we’re kind of scared to turn him loose because it’s, you know, once we opened our tap room, I mean it’s probably the top seller most of the time. We really haven’t pushed it a whole lot out of the market. You know, those IPA’s have to turn over pretty quickly and stay fresh, and so, you know, we try to keep it as fresh as we can and it’s scary to throw that out there in the market. Then all of a sudden you find some year-old beer out there that doesn’t taste very good and we get that impression, but anyway, the name. Okay, so, to the north of us, the property to the north of us, it was occupied by long-time resident, Tulsa Gamma Ray.

Eric Chupp: Oh yeah! I forgot about that place!

Glenn Hall: And they were still there. So we started our project back in 2011. So they ended up moving, I think in 2015…

Adam Marshall: To a secret research facility…

Glenn Hall: In east Tulsa, where they probably should. Because that’s heavy, that’s heavy industrial stuff right there. And that was part of our argument when we get into the whole rezoning thing, but they were grandfathered in, because they’d been there before, god knows when, I don’t know how long. So they were to the north of us. So we wanted to send a note, and I don’t know, you know, you rhyme, you play, and Gamma Ray IPA just seem to come out. My middle name’s Ray. So we have, in our taproom, a Two-Rays Double IPA. Our other brewers’ Kelsey Ray. We threw two of our favorite hops…

Adam Marshall: I didn’t know any of that! How come you never told me this?

Glenn Hall: I mean, and Adam knows this, that every beer, every name, everything has a different story.

Eric Chupp: You should go by the name Gamma Ray.

Marshall Morris: Gamma Ray.

Glenn Hall: Well, a lot of people, like, I think I was telling. It’s funny because last night I was working the tap room and I normally—we try to have some brewers nights where we’re in there and showing our face and making appearances. So we did a scientific suds night where had a wheat beer with two different yeast strains that we explained and compared the differences. So we try to do stuff like that. But last night it was because someone called in sick so I pulled a 16-hour.

Eric Chupp: Nice, yeah. Running a business.

Glenn Hall: So anyway, there was quite a few people up at the bar and they were hearing a lot of these stories about, and they’re like, “I did not know that!” Same thing and I was telling them, they were like, “I thought Gamma Ray was because you were ‘The Glenn Ray'” and I’m like, “No, that’s not the…”

Eric Chupp: Just happened to work out that way.

Adam Marshall: ‘The Drulk.’ I love that one too. When is a beer going to be ‘The Drulk?’

Marshall Morris: Oh, ‘The Drulk’.

Eric Chupp: Ey, it’s not bad.

Glenn Hall: Well, it’s funny because a lot of people, we’re gated over there, so we roll our gates up when we close and it’s like Fort Knox over there. Hopefully, god, knock on wood, we won’t have any problems. So, a lot of people get their cars locked in at night.

Marshall Morris: Oh, wow.

Glenn Hall: So we’re going to brew a beer, you know, we’ll tuck your car in for you. So there’s another one that we’ve always just kind of laughed about.

Eric Chupp: That’s awesome.

Marshall Morris: You kind of alluded to this as part of the zoning and that was a part of the process when you were first entering the industry. What was that like? What was the landscape, the environment like, of breweries and what was that process like for you? Was it all roses for you or was it challenging?

Adam Marshall: You remember the days of the old zoning code?! We have the new zoning code now that makes it so much easier. But the old zoning code—you went through the ringer.

Glenn Hall: Well, we were somewhat responsible for getting those zoning codes changed because we were going, you know, when we started this—you know, I’ve been around long time, and you know, like I said, it’s 2011—if you think back in that timeframe, I mean that’s when we founded our businesses to get this stuff rolling. Well, there was only Marshall’s, here in Tulsa. Prairie, you know. That was pretty much it. I mean there was nothing. So we were like number three on the map and didn’t have a brewery. Dead Armadillo, they were up and coming at the same time. So, we went through this process and there’s landmines everywhere, right? Anything could have shut our whole thing down at any given time. I mean, that’s just how it is. It amazes me today that we’re where we’re at because I basically acquired the land in 2011. 2012 and 2013 was basically educational time for me: study and research, traveling around the country, bugging these guys, brewing with Coop, hanging out with as many breweries as I could possibly go to. Tallgrass, you know. Just learning the trade basically and really getting ready to step it all up. Well then in 2014, I spent the entire year rezoning the property. So, funny story, I walked in there with my plans and I had a friend of mine—he’s not a licensed architect, but he’s a designer in my neighborhood—and he helped me along the process. I basically tease that I had pencil drawings and then he, you know… So, we did the conceptual design of the entire project and what you see over there is basically what we had drawn on napkins back in 2011. Well we walk in and one of the find folks from the INCOG over there, they said…

Adam Marshall : Which is no more now. It’s something else.

Glenn Hall: Well shit, I don’t know, but you know… So I walked in there and the lady basically told me, “Hey you need to go hire a civil engineer, an architect, or a civil engineer or lawyer to help you through this process.” And I looked at her and I said, “No, you need to go get someone else for me to work with because I’m doing this myself.” So, that’s kinda how it started and they gave me Dwayne Wilkerson over there who helped us through the process. And, I mean, but everything was a landmine. We had to go through three Planning Commission meetings and three City Council approval meetings, which now with the new requirements, there’s one single board of adjustment meeting you have to go to. So any of those, any public outcry, anything could have shot us down.

Eric Chupp: Tell us where the brewery is right now? Where are you guys located?

Glenn Hall: 12th and Lewis. So, 1147 S. Lewis. One block off of route 66.

Adam Marshall: And basically across from the Mother Road Market, which is a big draw right now.

Glenn Hall: So once we opened in January, they opened in October, November—I can’t remember, something like that. So they started remodeling…

Marshall Morris: How has it been like having them as neighbors?

Glenn Hall: Oh, it’s awesome. Yeah. Like, last night, people walked across the street that were in the bar, grabbed some food, brought it back over, had a few more beers. I mean so.

Eric Chupp: That works.

Glenn Hall: Hey, before they were there, and they’ve owned the property for a long time and they’re getting around, they’re utilizing everything they have now, and so it’s nice. We were the only foot traffic around there and so now it’s nice to see other foot traffic. It’s only going to get better.

Adam Marshall: You know what I love about the city though is you get a great business going, they get a great business going, and then what do they do? They tear your f**king street up right in front of you. For god knows how long. No, come on Tulsa, finish something, anything! We voted on fixing our streets like, what, a decade ago.

Eric Chupp: 1974.

Adam Marshall: It’s just a little pet peeve, and I know there’s more to it than that. But yeah, Mother Road Market. Because you’ve got people involved in that that are big backers, I mean big players—people have influence, people who were in the mayor’s office right now that I won’t name who were involved in that. But, no, we’re digging up your street. Welcome to business! Open Tulsa! It’s almost like in this town, open a new business, just plan on in a month or two, they’re going to dig your street up in front or your street up in front of your place.

Eric Chupp: Man, congratulations! We are going to come fix your streets!

Glenn Hall: Well, funny story about that. That’s from the 2008 sales tax package—what’s going on with Lewis right now. So I knew the whole time that this is going to happen.

Marshall Morris: It’s at some point definitely going to happen.

Glenn Hall: So I’ve been working with the city engineers for over two years and they kept saying, “You’re going to get in there before us, you’re going to get in there before us.” Because it took us, like I’m saying, 2011, we finally got our building permits in 2015, took us two years to build, 2017, and then we open to the public in January and then they come in March and start tearing it up. So we spent all this money to put the meters in the street. We had to do all this stuff. Well then they come up and disconnect all our water lines, reconnect all the water lines—it’s hard to brew with no pressure, water pressure. Because even though they’re way down almost to 21st now, when they disconnect the line, it affects us. And so we’ve had some long brew days just because it’s stuff like that.

Eric Chupp: That’s crazy.

Glenn Hall: You know what? I hope it’ll be nice when they finally get it done. What’s frustrating now with us is their freaking done by us and they won’t stripe the streets like their supposed… I mean if they just need to get the cones out of there and stripe the streets and we’ll be happy. But.

Eric Chupp: Well, speaking of the neighborhood, what’s kind of been the local reaction… reception of you guys opening up? Are you getting a lot of people, like you were saying, walking in from the neighborhood and kind of hanging out? What’s that looking like?

Glenn Hall: We are, yeah. The neighborhood has always been supportive. I actually was neighborhood president four years and so I have good relationship with most of my neighbors. I’ve lived in the neighborhood for 20 years. So it was just a natural fit for me and I do everything the hard way anyway. But that’s one reason why I spend a lot of time focusing on that spot because when I was, and Eric knows this, I was looking all at the industrial, you know—because to open a brewery, you had to be industrially zoned. I looked and looked and looked. These guys have a great spot and this is really the only area that’s nice enough to open up a brewery in Tulsa because you can go over to, oh god, what’s the road over there, where all the industrial stuff is.

Adam Marshall: Oh, Dawson.

Glenn Hall: And I looked over in Dawson and Eric said, “Don’t do it.”

Adam Marshall: You got like super fun sites over on Dawson, it’s crazy. People don’t even know. We looked at one and we were like…

Glenn Hall: I was discouraged.

Adam Marshall: This will be great! And then, oh, it’s on the super fun list? Uh oh.

Eric Chupp: What’s happening there, yeah?

Glenn Hall: There’s nowhere to open up a brewery in Tulsa and then you had to go through all the zoning stuff. So, I was driving home one day, drove Pat down 12th Street, which I do all the time, and I’m like, “I wonder what are these three houses that homeless people are living in and sh*t here that you know, why can’t I make this work?” So that’s kinda where it started and so I just got the address of the people, started contacting—of course, as soon as I started contacting them, trying to get the properties, they throw it up real estate and start selling it—so, fortunately, I was able to acquire all three properties.

Adam Marshall: And, just so people know, the challenge was: We put a new zoning code in place in Tulsa, in what, 2017. The new zoning code, but I think that all got finalized and went into effect, January 2017.

Glenn Hall: Yeah, right after I got done.

Adam Marshall: But before that, all your planning, you had to go do a ‘PUD’, which is a Planned Unit Development.

Glenn Hall: And that’s hurting us to this day by the way.

Adam Marshall: Because you’re now limited at 5,000 barrels of capacity. Is that right?

Glenn Hall: Well, I hadn’t ran into that part of it yet.

Adam Marshall: None of us have necessarily run into that yet but.

Glenn Hall: But the thing that’s hurting us, so, it’s a very restrictive zoning. So the PUD does not exist anymore in the new zoning. So we’ve even thought about abandoning our PUD and going elsewhere. And we may have to because…

Marshall Morris: Can you explain what that is? For anybody that’s listening.

Glenn Hall: It’s a Planned Unit Development. So what that is is we were zoned, CH, commercial high intensity.

Marshall Morris: Okay.

Glenn Hall: So, we wanted a multi-use facility. So basically industrial, commercial in the front part of the building, retail, so we could open a taproom eventually, which taprooms weren’t even allowed at the time—these guys at Marshall’s got that for us, thank god.

Adam Marshall: And one thing, I’ll just clarify in there is that at that time brewing, in Tulsa, was an industrial activity. You had to be in a zoning that was industrial moderate or industrial heavy. Industrial light, you could go get a special exception, that’s your one board hearing there. But they didn’t, it was a brewery, was a brewery, was a brewery. And so, when that was written, there were like 80 breweries in the nation and they were all ginormous. In the 70’s, that zoning code, microbreweries weren’t even a concept or anything. It is in the new zoning code, but this is what you were dealing with.

Glenn Hall: I mean, just like these guys know, they were educating the legislature. Well, I was one and then, you know, I always tell these guys, I tried to do my little part by challenging the zoning code, right, here in Tulsa and make it easier for everybody that comes up after us just like they made it. Without the Marshall’s guys, we wouldn’t be here either. So, you know, we did it the hard way and we challenged that zoning code and it was an educational. You had to educate these people about what a brewery is. “Oh, what are you going to be doing? Are you going to be running trucks in and out of there and all that?” No! I just want a small business. I want to support my family. I want to do what I love. And I want to do it by making Tulsa better. I mean, and Tulsa really, it’s not easy to do business here. It’s tough to build here. It’s tough to get a law… I mean, I think it’s getting better, but at the time when I went through this, it was not easy, and like I said, there were landmines everywhere.

Adam Marshall: And so a PUD is almost kind of like an agreement with the city, county that you have that says, in this square we’re going to have these activities, please approve it. We’re going to have an industrial activity that’s going to be brewing. We’re also going to have a commercial activity and all this. Now, you’re not a brewpub, which is—we never even had a distinctive brewpub—but in the sense of restaurant brewery. And now, Tulsa had some brewpubs back in the 90’s.

Glenn Hall: For three-two beer. Three-two only.

Adam Marshall: They could only brew low-point beer.

Eric Chupp: Do you remember what they were?

Adam Marshall: Well it was a Cherry Street Brewing Company and Tulsa Brewing Company. So Cherry Street Brewing Company was the catalyst that redeveloped Lincoln Square, which was the old Lincoln elementary school at Cherry Street and Peoria. And then you had Tulsa Brewing Company that was out at 71st and Memorial. But, those were commercially zoned areas. But, they had to be more restaurant. They were restaurants with brewing incidental to primary use.

Glenn Hall: Yes, they were secondary to nature. So, that was my first question. It’s like, well, how did these brewpubs exists in Tulsa? And they said, “Oh, well it was a secondary use to the restaurant.”

Eric Chupp: So to brew beer, you had to start another business first and then you can brew beer. That is dumb!

Glenn Hall: Yeah, so I had to learn all this stuff.

Adam Marshall: And a business that’s got one of the highest failure rates ever, a restaurant. Yeah.

Eric Chupp: Yeah, oh my goodness.

Glenn Hall: Well, and, I’m not a rich guy. I mean it’s me and my wife, we’ve worked for everything we have, And so I didn’t want to have to—sorry, Adam—hire an attorney and…

Adam Marshall: I didn’t want to either.

Glenn Hall: Yeah, I mean I’m telling you, professional fees are ridiculous. It didn’t matter what it is, accounting, anything. I mean it’ll take a big hole out of your budget that you hadn’t, you know, I didn’t have that stuff in my business plan. Why didn’t I put professional fees and sh*t like that’s, you know, some of that’s killing me now.

Marshall Morris: So you got the brewing, you got the city zoning, you know, all of the different city code that you have to jump through, right. On the business side, we’re talking about the business, as a business owner, and not just a brewery, what have been some of the challenges that you’ve faced or maybe didn’t expect to come up, that maybe when you’re operating a business?

Eric Chupp: Can I ask a pre-question? Is this your first business to run? Have you run a business in the past?

Glenn Hall: Yes, no, this is it. I’ve never, you know, I have a Business degree. But yeah, it’s kinda like having a baby, right? You can talk about it and all this stuff, but until it’s there screaming at you, you don’t understand what you’ve gotten into.

Eric Chupp: Well, now answer Marshall’s question for us.

Marshall Morris: So I mean, there’s a lot of different areas as it relates to business: you got hiring and staffing and training and then you got the other side of marketing and distributing. It’s a cool industry in that you’re not, you’re competing in that you’re trying to put out a great product but your competitors or other brewers in the area, they’re not at your throat. Because your success is their success, right? But what types of challenges have you seen outside of maybe some of the city code or the, maybe the bureaucracy that you have to jump through?

Glenn Hall: Well, I think what I have to say, any small business owner would probably say it. I mean, just like I was saying, I pulled a 16-hour day yesterday brewing all day and then work in the taproom at night. You know, stuff like that comes out of nowhere. And then, I mean, don’t get me wrong, yesterday, brewing, that’s what I got into this stuff for is because I love that part of it. Taxes, doing taxes every month and bookkeeping and those challenges and then..

Eric Chupp: Firing people.

Adam Marshall: Paying uncle sugar.

Glenn Hall: Oh man. Oh, yeah, and I mean, we can talk about this gross receipts tax that the Tax Commission’s trying to get us to pay for our taprooms. Well, hell, that could, you know, that would crush us because that’s real money to us that we don’t have.

Adam Marshall: Yeah, it’s a 13 and a half percent tax on the sale. So yeah, and what…

Eric Chupp: That’s gross!

Adam Marshall: No, what Glenn’s talking about is that there’s a few types of alcoholic beverage licensees that pay a 13 and a half percent that remit at a 13 and a half percent liquor tax. The consumer pays it but they collect it but it’s still a cashflow outlay, you know, in the business like any other paying, any other taxes. But, it’s only mixed beverage, on premise beer and wine licensees, and special event, and public special event licensees are the only ones that pay it, so it’s really an on premise tax. Well, we as brewers—we’re manufacturers that also have a taproom—we don’t have to pay that. However, if you have a brewpub that then that license in Oklahoma allows you then to go get a mixed beverage license, if you want one. Once you cross that line, you pay a 13 and a half percent liquor tax on everything.

Glenn Hall: Even your own product.

Adam Marshall: Even your own product—you’ve crossed into the restaurant lane at that point.

Glenn Hall: You know, so he’s alluding like a restaurant. So they sell wine, liquor, various strong beers, you know, they. So they have to pay this 13 and a half, well the consumer pays it ultimately, like you’re saying, but they have to collect this 13 and a half percent. Well, the difference in us is we’re manufacturing and selling our own product. So, we have been left exempt from this 13 and a half percent tax. I was telling Adam yesterday when we were talking that, you know, now under our brewers license we can sell wine in our taprooms, you know, we can buy from a wine house seller. Well, great! And I don’t mind. I wouldn’t mind paying that 13 and a half percent on the wine, but I really have a problem paying this 13 and a half percent on my own product. And it’s like, if the restaurant owners and things think this is a bad thing, that we get this exemption, you know, we make our own product. There’s a big difference there.

Eric Chupp: It’d be like them paying 13 percent on the food they’re making, extra on top of everything.

Adam Marshall: Well, they can invest in a manufacturing facility and all the headache that goes on with that. So, and luckily we’ve got a precedent, even though the Tax Commission tried to put this on us after October one.

Glenn Hall: I mean, they need money right? They’re going after any penny and they can get but…

Adam Marshall: Yeah, wineries have never paid this since they got their laws passed in 1998, or whatever, because their license has never been mentioned in the statute. But it was really odd because the Tax Commission came at us, the craft brewing industry, and said, “Hey, you need to bond this tax and remit this tax.” And we’re like, “Wait, we are not one of the licensees mentioned in this law.” It took them about a month to figure out, “Oh yeah, you’re right.” And they didn’t remember that, oh yeah, the wineries, which had been doing their business, with their tasting rooms for 20 years now, have never been subject to that. So, yeah.

Glenn Hall: Well, and, you know, like you’re saying, I mean, everybody thinks us as brewers have all this money, I don’t know why.

Eric Chupp: It’s not just brewers, it’s business owners, man.

Marshall Morris: Business owners.

Glenn Hall: I guess so. I mean, I’m just looking at it through my lens. So everybody seems to come after us for more money. And I mean, one of the tough things we’re talking about is, you know, I thought I knew how much this business costs, but man, it’s a highly capital intensive business. If you don’t love what you’re doing, if you’re just getting in it to make a quick buck, you’re not going to make it.

Adam Marshall: There’s a whole lot of things you can do and work a lot less and make a lot more money.

Glenn Hall: That’s exactly… I mean some days I wonder why not stay in my IT job, I’d be rolling in it right now.

Adam Marshall: Yeah, yeah.

Eric Chupp: Well that goes into things you were talking about earlier with us like cleaning. You said like every brewers job is cleaning. That’s got to be a huge part of it, right?

Glenn Hall: And we take pride in that. I go over this with our taproom staff and everything. We want to give this impression that we are very clean, we are German clean. And you know, and we have to, you know, because not everybody’s clean. I mean, you know, so you have to bring this. If you want to work here, you’re going to be clean.

Adam Marshall: Yeah, I’ve joked with my brother a while back when, early on, it’s like your business card should say, “CEO/Brew Master/Janitor.” He didn’t really like the idea, but I thought it was funny,

Eric Chupp: It’s true, especially as a startup.

Glenn Hall: Well, funny story, oh god. Matt Vincent, part owner of Ska was in town.

Adam Marshall: Yeah, a Tulsa guy.

Glenn Hall: He was in town last week. So, you know.

Adam Marshall: Helped us out a lot in the early days.

Glenn Hall: I’m at home doing taxes, that’s what I do on the weekends, catch up the books at the dining room table. Anyway…

Adam Marshall: Man, you’re making people want to get into the brewing business, you know.

Eric Chupp: So exciting!

Glenn Hall: So the brewing part of this business for me, it’s probably a quarter, you know, a 25 percent or something—it’s just nuts. But anyway, so Matt Vincent, I get a text from my beer-tender, at the taproom that, “Hey, there’s this guy in the taproom. I’m putting his card on your desk.” And I’m like, “Well, what brewery is he from?” “Oh, Ska Brewing.” And I said, “Well, tell him I’ll be right there .” Because I wanted to meet Matt. I mean, I’ve heard a lot about him and these guys know them, they’re good friends of him. So I went down there and we had a great conversation. Well, and he was telling us because they’ve been around a long time, I mean they weren’t one of the forefronts in the 90’s but, long time, they’d been in business.

Adam Marshall: Ska Brewing, out of Durango, Colorado.

Glenn Hall: So we all commiserate. I think we ought to have a brewers, uh, what do you call it, support group, you know, so…

Eric Chupp: A hotline you can call in.

Glenn Hall: But Matt goes, you know, when he got into the business it was like printing money. I mean, they didn’t have to do anything. It was just, you know, they threw, “Oh craft beer!” and it’s just like. And he said, and now what we’ve learned in the past couple years is we’ve got to really run a business. I mean it’s like running a business now. And I just laughed and said, “Yeah, my timing’s great, you know, I wish I could have just printed money.”

Adam Marshall: It’s the correction.

Glenn Hall: Double digit growth. No more.

Adam Marshall: But I tell a lot of people just like what you’ve done as a neighborhood brewery. And this is where Eric, my brother, who, who came up apprenticing in Germany, they’re really like, their philosophy, even though they might have a brewery thats got regional legs, they started as neighborhood breweries. And it’s like if you can’t be a neighborhood brewery and make a living doing that, you’ve got no business doing the other stuff. And as we’ve grown, that’s kind of been Eric’s philosophy, is like if we can’t do it right here, which early on we couldn’t. You know we couldn’t, we didn’t even get it into distribution, but we knew it would come eventually. And so now, like when we built the taproom, it’s like, we’ve got to do it here because going into the foreign markets, that growth isn’t always going to be there and it’s not now. We’re starting to see a little bit of a correction in the market. But, you know, the other thing is that there’s an authenticity, and I talk about this a lot, that we sell, that you sell. And your authenticity is different than our authenticity, that’s why we can be, you know, a mile apart and still have good businesses that make a comfortable living. But we’re always going to be small business owners. So it’s that aspect of it that I think, while we come back, because we can show our authenticity out to our neighbors and our public and the people around.

Eric Chupp: I feel like that’s something Tulsa’s missed a lot, right? Like, there’s just not that neighborhood thing really anywhere.

Glenn Hall: Well, you know, you allude to that. I mean, I sent a guy over last night from our taproom, he was from Colorado and he’s like, “Which brewery should I go visit? I’ve got one more beer, I’ve got one more beer I can have.” And so yeah, I sent him over here.

Adam Marshall: Thanks. We’d do the same.

Eric Chupp: It’s so rare. Marshall and I do business consulting and like we pretty much teach businesses war.

Glenn Hall: Well, and it is. I mean. There’s, you got it. But we, you know, and now…

Eric Chupp: It seems a little different with you guys, legitimately.

Glenn Hall: Well I’ve got a couple of things. Okay. So everybody talks about the law changes. “Oh it’s got to be so good for you.” And kind of what I allude to is, you know, what we got what we wanted back in August of 2016 to open up our taprooms and be part of the community and allow people to come in, you know, be able to get direct feedback from consumers.

Adam Marshall: Enjoy all the products, not just those that were low-point that maybe were made at the time.

Glenn Hall: So now, you know, in a lot of ways, these law changes, while great for the consumers, now we’ve got a rash of out-of-state breweries coming in, we’ve got, you know, more breweries popping up. I mean that’s, it’s getting harder and harder, you know, to get tap handles out in the market, to do things like that because before everyone had so much space. So in a lot of ways, the law changes, maybe you’re not so good for all of us, you know.

Adam Marshall : And that’s what I tell a lot of folks, like big-box, big-box stores, you know, your grocery and C-store channels. I mean, our only off premise channel before October one, meaning, you know, go buy a six pack of our full strength beer, was a liquor stores. 700 licensees around approximately.

Eric Chupp: And it was warm.

Adam Marshall: In the state. Yeah. And it was warm. So approximately 100 licensees. Overnight October one we went to over 35, so 700 points of sale. We went over 3,500 points of sale. Now, everybody thinks, oh, do the math there, but we’re not talking about a store that’s going to carry everything you and I make. I mean, the package stores locally owned great stewards of our product that carried it all. They knew us, we knew them. And while, you know that we’ve got some great Oklahoma owned, especially up here with Reasors and Quiktrip—these are great corporations that are Oklahoma owned. The big-box side of the things for a craft product doesn’t always do good. And I use the example of, hey, you can go to home depot, you can get custom crap. You can get cabinets, good cabinets. But if you want real, good trim carpentry, you want good, you know, good craft quality, you got to go to a local craftsperson. And that’s what we are because there’s an authenticity there. There’s a knowledge there that you just have. And that’s the business we’re in. So, yeah, grocery stores and C-stores. Great. But, we’re doing a little bit different. It wasn’t as big of a draw as what we can do ourselves at our place and convey our own authenticity.

Marshall Morris: If you were looking back to 1994 Glenn Hall. Okay, 2019 Glenn Hall is looking back to 1994 Glenn Hall, what advice would you give him? What kind of words of wisdom would you give him knowing what you know now? What would you say? Coach him on?

Glenn Hall: Well, you know, funny enough, I almost got into the business right out of school. There was a brewery in Norman that had gone under, Inner Urban, and they had equipment sitting there. So I thought about that. So, but you know, what would life have been different if I had jumped in the industry at that point in time, maybe you know, but I had business professors tell me, “Don’t decide on what you want to do right now. Don’t go get a Master’s right now. Go out and work for 10 years and then you’ll really know.” So, you know, I don’t know, it’s hard to say. I, you know, don’t like to say what if, or anything like that. I think everything’s meant for a reason and I’ve got a good life, got a good wife, got a good family.

Eric Chupp: Amen, brother.

Glenn Hall: That’s all that matters, man.

Marshall Morris: And so do you think a lot brewers get into the business with different expectations than maybe what they should have? Or maybe not Glenn Hall, but maybe anybody that’s listening that’s thinking about opening up a microbrewery and like getting into the business and starting to do that. Do you think that expectations should be set a certain way and the way that you’ve learned that a business goes in this industry?

Eric Chupp: Kind of like earlier you said it costs a lot more than expected, right?

Glenn Hall: Right, right. And I mean, no business is easy of course, but this is not an easy industry by any means. And like, Matt from Ska mentioned, it’s getting harder and harder every day. You know, I don’t see any way there’s going to be any more regional brewers like Loganitas or Founders—those days are over. I think the markets finally getting to a tipping point in saturation when it comes to regionally. I think here in Oklahoma we probably have some still some room for growth, but you know, Tulsa is not a huge, major metropolitan area. We’re really young to the beer culture. So, it’s not the same as it is like in Colorado or somewhere where every consumer supports that neighborhood brewery or understands what that neighborhood brewery is. I mean, I had a couple come in yesterday—middle-aged couple—and they had no idea what craft beer was. And I tried to help them as best I could and found them, they loved Indian Wheat. But, there’s still a lot of untapped potential and, really, we need our community to support all of us because if we’re all going to survive in this thing, that’s what we’re in it for, to educate everybody on this beer culture and thing. And I tell these guys all the time, I don’t know how in the world you guys survived on wholesale alone because the margins on wholesale are crazy. I believe you got to have a good mix. So, we’ve got breweries around town that are doing taproom only. We got breweries that are going gangbusters distribution and then we got a good mix. We like to look at ourselves as maybe a 50/50 mix. So, we stuck with the mom and pop liquor stores for the law changes. We wanted to wait and see what happened. We’re a teeny little brewery. Our volumes are not huge. We want to grow a little bit, but we don’t want to grow too fast because the fastest way to go bankrupt is grow too fast, so anyway. So we’ve been standing on the brakes a little bit and holding off, holding off. Well, we felt an impact this last quarter because we were in liquor stores, right? Consumers have shifted all their habits, buying habits—not all of them—but a lot of it from liquor stores to grocery stores and convenience stores. And so we’re seeing that. So, what’s our next step? We need to go get in front of the consumer. So we’re going to selectively go into some grocery stores and we can’t do the Walmarts and the things of the world, which doesn’t philosophically fit in our approach anyway, because we want to be hyper-local, but you know, we got to sell beer, you know, we got and we want that good 50/50 mix.

Marshall Morris: We gotta sell some stuff!

Glenn Hall: Saying and consumers just aren’t going to the liquor store to buy products as much. So, we took a little bit of a hit on our distribution side this last quarter because we weren’t in those grocery stores. So we’re going to try to fix that going forward. And, you know, hopefully it’s not the hanging on the tiger’s tail or something. And these guys are going through that too. It’s tough!

Adam Marshall: Absolutely, it’s a new market. It’s like going into a new territory. Now, one thing, the reality of this business is, and I appreciate the picture that you paint because we all paint. I mean, and we’ve got to do that, and I hope people listening will know and understand that because this is not just unique to our business it’s any business kinda thing, but are you having fun?

Glenn Hall: Oh god, yeah. I mean like I said, I got into this to brew beer.

Adam Marshall: Absolutely.

Glenn Hall: And play with toys.

Adam Marshall: And it’s a fun industry, right? People romanticize a lot. I mean, as a professional brewer, oh god, that would be the best job to have in the world. I mean, you’re the first one to say, well, no, there’s reality. But there’s a side of it that’s fun. It’s a passion to follow.

Glenn Hall: Well this industry is 99 percent a**hole free.

Adam Marshall: Absolutely.

Marshall Morris: 99 percent.

Adam Marshall: Yeah, 99 percent a**hole free.

Eric Chupp: Name the one. No, I’m just kidding, I’m just kidding.

Adam Marshall: He’s not in the industry in Oklahoma anymore. We know him.

Glenn Hall: Well, if people are getting into this industry to make a quick buck or just because it’s cool or whatever, they’re not going to make it, and that will skew that one percent a**holes into five or 10 percent.

Eric Chupp: That’s a great way to put it. Go for it.

Adam Marshall: Now, Glenn, I got one thing that, I don’t know if you know that you—because I wasn’t around you when you told the story—but you introduced the Marshall crew to what was the concept of the ‘street nap.’ You don’t recall that one?

Glenn Hall: No, remind me.

Adam Marshall: It was one of the industry get-togethers and I think there’d been another brewer in Oklahoma that had left and didn’t break down their kiosk or their display. It was a representative of her locally and a lot of us were having a good time. I don’t think I was at this particular one, but he said, “Well, yeah, after a street nap I woke up and…”

Glenn Hall: Oh, oh, I’m with you. I’m getting there now, I’m getting there.

Adam Marshall: Yeah, yeah it takes a little bit. But, just having a good time and, you know, maybe hanging out on the street corner for a minute and we might, other people might call that know passed out a little bit. Street nap. I love that term, so.

Eric Chupp: That’s a good spin.

Glenn Hall: Pull up your bootstraps and keep on moving.

Eric Chupp: Glenn, I want to ask you, is there anything that we as consumers can be looking forward to? Is there anything exciting going on with Renaissance Brewing Company right now that you’re really, really, really pumped about that you’d like to share with anybody?

Glenn Hall: Sure, man. We’re always trying to keep it real and one thing that we try to do is we try to have, as frequently as possible, new beers on in the taproom.

Eric Chupp: Cool.

Glenn Hall: That’s part of our main focus. And we’re kind of our own worst enemy at times because we do these one off beers and they run out and then people are going crazy. “Where’s that Two-Rays? Where’s that J-Pow Brown? Where’s that Night Hawks Porter?” You know, and it’s like it’ll come around again. We just, we, you know, I always, even in my business plan, I think I wrote, you know, I want to keep it interesting for all of us because we brew a lot of gold. Okay. So we brew gold and it’s a fun beer to brew, but you know, yesterday we brewed our Lewis Lager for the first time on a large scale, which is our light American-style lager. And it was fun! I mean…

Eric Chupp: You’re in it.

Glenn Hall: We hit all of our numbers perfectly. Everything went perfect, you know. Temperatures were great. Everything, you know. That’s fun stuff, man. But, coming out, like I said, the big thing we’re going to be putting in grocery stores, I think people will be excited about that. Sierra Products out in grocery stores. We plan on getting back to statewide distribution. That’s really as far as we want to spread our wings. Because we’re going to remain small as we can for as long as we can.

Marshall Morris: Well, distribution in grocery stores has to be great marketing for you guys to make more people aware of the taproom and coming out to see you guys.

Glenn Hall: Well, like I said, I mean, it might’ve been a mistake on our part to kind of wait and see, but you know, we had liquor store owners coming and asking, “Hey, are you guys going to go into Quiktrip? Are you guys going to do this and that?” And I was confused. Why are you guys asking this? Well, if you do that, as limited the product you have, we won’t be able to get any because it’ll be taken out. And so we thought about it and I said, you know what, that stuff scares me to death. These guys have been in business for 10 years. We’ve been in business one year. We’re not ready for that. But now, looking back, maybe we should have done a little more. We can do more than we’re doing and we know that. We’re going to have to work a little harder at it. But you know what? We want consumers to have our product out in the market, so.

Marshall Morris: Now, everybody needs to go over to the Renaissance Brewing Company Taproom. Okay.

Glenn Hall: Yes.

Marshall Morris: And go drink their beer.

Adam Marshall: 12th and Lewis.

Marshall Morris: 12th and Lewis. I would never say you’re an idiot.

Eric Chupp: Or an a**hole.

Marshall Morris: Or an a**hole.

Eric Chupp: We wouldn’t say that.

Marshall Morris: We wouldn’t say you’re an a**hole if you don’t go do that. We wouldn’t say you’re an idiot. We’re not that kind of guy.

Eric Chupp: But if you’ve don’t.

Marshall Morris: But if you don’t.

Glenn Hall: I wouldn’t say that either.

Marshall Morris: But I’m going to ask you here, Glenn, have you guys had a beer that you’ve really enjoyed outside of your portfolio of beers that you really, really do enjoy? Somebody that does a really good beer that maybe the listeners should check out or maybe explore if they like your beers or like similar type of beers? Is there a particular type of beer or a brewery that you really liked that you’ve had a beer recently and you’re like, “Man, it’s just like on the top of my mind. I’ve had this and it was awesome. It was great.”

Glenn Hall: You know, I’ll stay away from being in state. I’ve always enjoyed anything that Bell’s Brewery in Michigan does.

Eric Chupp: Bell’s? Spell that. B E L L?

Glenn Hall: B E L L S.

Adam Marshall: Yeah, one of the most colorful owners in the all of craft brewing is Larry Bell.

Glenn Hall: And I haven’t personally met him. I’ve met John Mallett, which is, I think he’s head of operations or something, but he’s more of a techie, engineering type guy. But yeah, everything they do just seems to be great.

Eric Chupp: I just googled him and the first thing that came up, it’s a photo that says, “Former stoner Beer Bearen.”

Adam Marshall: Larry Bell.

Glenn Hall: And we don’t even get Bells here, so sorry to put that plug-in for them and they don’t distribute here yet.

Adam Marshall: But I’ve met him a few times at the Craft Brewers Conference. Eric’s partied with him a couple of times, my brother. And, and it’s just…

Eric Chupp: He’s a cool dude, huh?

Adam Marshall: The guy still has the passion for the industry and the products.

Marshall Morris: We’ll go around the table here with closing hot takes. Adam, do you have a hot take and closing thoughts? Do you have any hot takes?

Adam Marshall: My thing about Glenn and what Renaissance has done, and I’m glad he’s been able to really tell the story, is like this guy did it all himself. And he had the time to tell INCOG, “Yeah, I need to go work with somebody else because I’m going to do it myself.” Like a lot of other breweries, they weren’t running to the bank and on strict timetables. Getting investors who wanted to see stuff open. You did this all yourself, you and your wife, Sarah, who’s just lovely…

Glenn Hall: I have a very patient wife and I owe her everything.

Adam Marshall: And lovely and brilliant. And she would go to the Craft Brewers Conferences with you and we would meet there and have a good time. But, I just really appreciate everything you’re doing. And, you know, one thing I’ll say, one of my last more recent experiences over at your place as a bunch of us got together, friends, and we dressed up in Santa Claus suits and we got something to eat at the Mother Road Market and then came across to your place. You weren’t there that night, but your staff was awesome!

Eric Chupp: I missed that party! I couldn’t be there!

Adam Marshall: We had all these Santa Claus people coming in. We went from there and we just did a tour around. But it was a great place to start things off so.

Glenn Hall: I appreciate it.

Marshall Morris: Glenn, do you have any closing hot takes for the podcast to leave our listeners with?

Glenn Hall: Well I just encourage people to come visit us and check us, check us out. You know, don’t look for a new building because it really doesn’t look new. But it’s the northeast corner of 12th and Lewis. And you know, it’s funny because a lot of people, you know, we did ourselves, you know, hard way again, we built it in old-style like the 1920’s, and people think, “Oh, that building’s been there forever and I never knew it was a brewery.” So, there’s a lot of untapped potential out there that we can grab a hold of, even within our own neighborhood. So come in and enjoy our beers, try our beers. That’s the way to support what we’re very local so.

Marshall Morris: Chupp, closing hot take?

Eric Chupp: I just want to say thank you for having the vision of this neighborhood-type brewery. And I know a lot of you guys do, but going through all of the crap that you went through to actually get it right by your own neighborhood. Because I’ve been to a lot of… I grew up in Tulsa, outside of Tulsa, Catoosa, Verdigris area. I’ve been to a lot of big cities and one thing I was always jealous of was these local businesses that you could jump into, and it seems like here it’s just all of these giant box businesses with the only option. And so to see you guys doing stuff like this really fires me up and I think it should fire up any other entrepreneurs that are wanting to do that because you guys are proving that it can happen. You can do it. You don’t have to be at giant business to survive and make a living doing what you love.

Marshall Morris: You don’t have to make it big just to make it.

Glenn Hall: That’s right.

Eric Chupp: Amen!

Marshall Morris: Well, in closing, let’s cheers.

Eric Chupp: Cheers to exit boys.

Marshall Morris: Thank you very much. Thank you very much, Glenn, thank you for coming on.

Glenn Hall: Appreciate it guys!

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